GS: Why was HE moved from children and families to education and childcare?
ET: The secretary of state took that decision and I'm sure he had his reasons. Anyway, my office is very close to his.
Three minutes in and NO answer to anything!
This does not surprise me, is it not all we have come to expect from those who seek to rule us.
GS: What are the key issues re HE?
ET: Clearly there are issues. Balance between freedom of HEers and s7 duty is an issue. Funding and access to support are issues. The balance between support and [?? nothing?] is about right.
[This bit is verbatim because people are commenting on it all over the place]
We give home educators considerable freedom. We also give them responsibility to provide a suitable education for their children. We don't ask them to register. We don't have undue interference, which I wouldn't be in favour of but at the same time, we understand that it is a profound decision to educate your child at home and when a parent makes that decision they do have to take financial responsibility for that.
[Non-verbatim] Gove was clear on funding and I don't see a need to change it, given financial situation, but I'll read the committee's report and consider its recommendations.
Graham Stuart, perhaps you can encourage Ms Truss to read the relevant statute (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/56/section/7)? Society as a whole (of which I am a part) places the duty on EVERY parent of every child of compulsory school age to cause him or her to receive efficient full-time education suitable to his or her age, ability and aptitude (AA&A) and any special educational needs (SEN). This is not given by your (or any) government to home educators. Society sees education as a Good Thing and places a duty on parents, ALL parents. Not on resident parents, white parents, black parents, working parents, able-bodied parents or ANY other subcategory - ALL parents have a duty to ensure that their child has an education. You cannot put a legal duty on people and then determine how they must carry it out - in fact, section 7 does not do so. It is unfortunate that section 7 implies that "regular attendance at school" automatically discharges the parent's duty - is clear that significant numbers of school-attending children do not receive an education suitable to their AA&A and SEN. If the Education Department and LAs are supposed to be ensuring that parents comply with section 7, perhaps they could start with considering whether parents do cause their children to receive efficient full-time education suitable to their AA&A and SEN by regular attendance at school. Given that the government uses taxpayers' money to fund the majority of schools, surely its should ensure that they are fulfilling their purpose?
An Act to consolidate the Education Act 1944 and certain other enactments relating to education, with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission.
Secondly, I do not understand why it is obvious (as implied by Ms Truss's tone) that a parent who makes the decision to home educate has to take financial responsibility for it. A parent who decides to use a school does not have to take financial responsibility. I do not intend to argue for funding - I am well aware of the strings that would come with it and would have refused funding in order not to comply with the strings - but I argue with the suggestion that it is self-evident that families should fund home education from the household budget.
Was just thinking about MY talking about NEETs. She said that of the four HE "leavers" she knew about, one was NEET - but she was a traveller staying with the family, which is culturally appropriate. So, how does that make her NEET. And why cannot they find out how many exHE NEETs they have from the other end, by asking visitors to DWP about their place and date of last education? That would surely give a better idea of whether HE is an issue for future employability? The current method of counting NEETs is widely acknowledged to be stupid.
Neil Carmichael: What about registration because we can't count them?
ET: Tricky balance. LAs think it is better to co-operate with parents. I'm in favour of LAs co-operating with parents and schools: registration wouldn't help that. Relationships are improving, at least in the LAs who appeared before the committee.
Eh? how did the 's' word get in there? Does she not know that some of us have never used them? Also, she has a sample of 3/152 where 'relationships are improving' - and she's only heard one side of it. Is that good enough for a minister?
ET: On balance, the system we have is the right one. Education of children not in school is responsibility of parent, not LA. [Yay!] If LAs hear of CME, they have a duty to follow up [implied: not to seek out]. No evidence that HE produces worse outcomes so no need to change current system.
Alex Cunningham MP: How can you track and check outcomes if you do not have a register and don't know who they are?
ET: It is the parent who has legal responsibility, therefore LA does not have to hunt down all parents - that would be shifting responsibility.
AC kept coming back to it but he was blown off.
GS: What does the DfE website mean when it says its considering policy.
ET: Nothing, really. It depends on what comes out of the select committee. If it ain't broke, let's not try to fix it.
GS: HEers think law/guidance are clear; LAs think not; what do you think?
ET: I see no reason to amend it.
David Ward: 122 LAs have ultra vires or misleading info on websites.
ET: If the DfE is told about it, we'll follow it up. I am in favour of localism and it is up to LAs what services they provide.
DW: Should other orgs take on a monitoring role?
ET: No strong view. Will wait for committee report.
DW: Do you have any view on whether LAs should support or monitor?
ET: Localism - they can do what they see fit and answer to local electorate.
This is where it all goes pear shaped, we are offered up to the wolves!
DW: Has the DfE looked at support for HE.
ET: From Sept 2013, FE colleges can admit 14-15yos without reference to LA. Other than that, new legislation should take account of effect on HEers.
Ian Mearns: You keep saying you have seen no evidence. Perhaps the DfE should look for some? There should be minimum standards [for LAs?] that HEers can fall back on.
ET: There have been independent studies on numbers and I'm waiting to see the committee report to find out what best practice looks like. I want to see evidence but do not want to intrude on families.
GS: but we are not talking about intruding on families. Couldn't Ofsted deal with LAs, whose procedures and paperwork vary widely?
ET: We need more transparency to make LAs look to what they are doing, so they are held accountable and can learn from best practice.
Ian Mearns: Can the DfE make it clearer how LAs should access APF?
ET: Yes.
IM: And what about SEN, can you be clear that LAs should provide support for SEN, even if the child is HE?
ET: Yes, with or without statement.
IM: How does the SEN Bill affect this? Can you make sure that HEers are catered for by it?
ET: Yes.
IM: It's a postcode lottery - what should HEers do if they are in a 'bad' postcode?
ET: I'll wait to see what the committee report says. Localism. Legislating or regulating does not necessarily change what happens on the ground. LAs should do their jobs properly.
Craig Whittaker: Access to exams?
ET: Evidence of difficulty but what can govt do about it and what can schools do about it? It is a cost for a school and I don't want to make it hard for them.
GS: So you prefer to have a group of children effectively barred from public exams?
ET: There's evidence it is difficult but not that children have been barred.
GS: Lots of schools manage it OK. I'm not sure that it is a great cost to schools.
ET: But this govt wants to let schools get make their own decisions and therefore are reluctant to intervene. HEers manage to get exams, even if difficult.
GS: Duty could be on LAs, like with other duties that they fulfil through schools. You're the first person to say that there shouldn't be any changes.
ET: But don't want to interfere with autonomy of schools.
GS: If we can show that HEers cannot access exams, will you deal with it?
ET: There is evidence and evidence but I'll look at it with an open mind.
Craig Whittaker: It's the access not the cost, because parents have to pay. What about access to other services (sport, music, etc.)?
ET: No idea.
Alex Cunningham: What about giving HEers vouchers?
ET: overall constraints on education budget, where the funding would be found. Also admin difficulties, given discussions about registration.
Errm. If we all put our children into school that would make a HUGE impact on the budget - at least 21,000 * £4000 = £84 million plus the cost of buildings, equipment, etc.
Oh, well done, Alex Cunningham. He says precisely that - if the HEed children were in school, they'd cost you money so why is it not available?
ET: When HEers decide not to use schools, they take on the financial responsibility.
That's an answer?
ET: If LAs want to release the money to HEers, we won't stop them.
AC: But there's no consistency across the country.
ET: Consistency is not necessarily desirable. It is up to LA leaders to answer for that to the committee. We're all waiting for your report. The current system, broadly speaking, is working. We don't want to upset the balance.
GS: Will you be a champion of HEers? [General laughter]
ET: That would make me popular with you. I certainly respect HEers and I will take up their issues with other ministers and with myself. [General laughter] Yes, I will be a champion.
David Ward: I have a right to go to the Bahamas but cannot afford it. What about parents who have the right to HE but cannot afford exam, swimming, etc.? Its a worthless right. We are looking for a message to HEers. If they have a right to HE, they need a right to reasonable costs to fund it.
Aaaarghhh! We are not talking about a RIGHT but a DUTY. If I cannot afford to feed my kids, the govt helps me because I have a DUTY to feed them. If every parent in the country were to fund education directly from the household budget (rather than through taxation), I bet that would have an interesting effect on the economy.
It's a right and a responsibility. Cost of exams is a relatively small cost compared to overall cost. The parent is deciding not to educate inside state system and they need to make sure they can provide. The govt says that the taxpayer will pay for state system.
GS: Do you have a philosophical objection to state provision to supplement HE?
ET: No, it is a practical objection. No time to consider philosophy since joining the DfE. I'll think about it, especially after I get your report.
M: Does it not concern you that we have no idea about numbers?
ET: some studies show 20,000 (known by LAs). We get back to registration. I'm not convinced that tracking is not important. Perhaps HEers themselves could look at the numbers. Not responsibility of DfE to find out how many HEers. (Pending reading the report.)
IM: But LAs may be completely unaware of some children. ET: I see no evidence that this is a problem.
GS: Some HEers suggested they'd like to have an online free school. Would you fund it?
ET: Philosophical difference between home education and school. It's on a continuum. ...
That's all, folks!